I attended a meeting of the Cambridgeshire Police Authority on Wednesday the 29th of April 2009 . I used the opportunity for members of the public to ask questions to raise the problem of Police Officers stopping people from taking photographs when they no powers to make such a demand.
My Question - TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS IN PUBLIC PLACES
I would like to draw the authority’s attention to what appears to me to be a systemic problem of police officers and police community support officers telling people to stop filming or taking photographs in public places when they have no grounds, or powers, to make such a demand. I think there is a need to look into why officers think they have powers to stop people filming and taking photographs, and for them to be reminded that generally they do not.
This is a particular problem with respect to taking photographs or video of crime and “anti- social behaviour” being committed by, or involving, youths and young people. The police’s first response is not to tackle the problem youths, but to warn the person taking or offering photographs not to take photographs of youths. What has happened to the police to cause them to invoke this kind of response? Are they taking political correctness to an absurd level? Are paedophiles taking photographs of young vandals and moped riders? Are the police no-longer free to exercise common sense?
I have asked the Chief Constable about this on BBC Radio Cambridgeshire; she expressed her support for members of the public photographing, and even videoing anti-social behaviour by youths, stating that showing such images to their parents can be a very effective way of putting a stop to the problem.
On a related, but separate point I believe it is particularly important that the police don’t try and stop members of the public photographing them on duty / in action when the public think they’re doing something wrong.
Answer Given
We note your concern regarding this and ask if there are specific concerns or complaints regarding the actions of Cambridgeshire Officers that these are directed to the Chief Constable so they can be investigated.
My Response and Comments
I used my opportunity to make a brief reply to say that clearly I did not agree with the answer which implies that the subject of my question is considered a matter for the police and not the police authority. Clearly I judged it to be a broad enough strategic systemic problem that it needed to be addressed by the Authority and that’s why I took it to them.
Deputy Chief Constable John Feavyour replied to say that there was no police policy allowing officers to prevent people taking photographs and that he would be interested to hear of specific complaints, he said it was a matter for the police’s professional standards department.
While Mr Feavyour was saying that to instruct people not to take photos was against police policy I interrupted him say it’s no good having a policy if your PCs and PCSOs are unaware of it. Mr Feavyour looked shocked by the fact I’d interrupted and challenged him; he didn’t answer the point, other than to say complaints would be taken seriously.
I have previously taken specific cases to both ward based, and area based police consultative committees in Cambridge and will continue to do so, I think such problems ought be addressed in public forums.
Mr Wilkins, a member of the Police Authority, spoke to me after the meeting and we discussed the problem of defining the boundary between a strategic and an operational matter. He said he thought there would be a way for the Police Authority to take action on this - by asking the force to improve their training in this area, and asking them to report back to the authority on what they have done. I drew Mr Wilkins’ attention to the fact this is a national problem, and the fact that dealing with it would I believe be in line with his party, The Liberal Democrats’, national policies.
I hope Mr Wilkins, and other members of the Police Authority will take some action on this point in the near future.
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10 Comments
“Answer given” Er… Richard, you seem to have missed out the actual answer that the police gave.
Oh, wait a minute… no you didn’t miss it out, did you? “If you don’t like it, complain to the Chief Constable.”
Excellent. Well that’s fine then, isn’t it.
It almost makes you want to go out and start taking pictures of police just for the sheer cussedness of it.
Well done Richard with this one. What happens on the ground is really the most important thing and people are easily intimidated into thinking they’re doing the wrong thing in taking pictures when clearly it;s hugely helpful.
I think that pictures of people openly littering or burning big holes in public space grassland would help stop this kind of thing where people do it because they can get away with it.
And how many of us spot people yapping on the mobile phone whilst driving? Do the police want to hear about that. One such absorbed law breaker nearly knocked me off my bike yesterday.
I am not from Camebrige but recognise the points made as being endemic throughout the Police service.
Although Chief Constables will on occasions issue directives on the application of legislation, when the guidlines are not followed there does not appear to be any re-dress.
This situation eventually ends up with unlawful practices becoming accepted.
Dave. (UK)
The Guardian have obtained video footage taken by the police at the Kingsnorth power station protest last year. The film shows police officers attack and arrest women for asking for an officer’s number and taking a photo of him.
Elements of the UK Police appear to be out of control.
I followed this up when I met the Chief Executive of the Police Authority, she claimed it was not a problem which had come to the authority’s attention before. She agreed with Mr Wilkins though on the best approach for the authority to take being to monitor training given to officers in this area.
A particularly astounding case of the police stopping a photographer in Kent has been publicised on the photographer’s blog.
The photographer was aware of the fact the officers had no power to demand his name and address; but arrested him because they thought him not giving it was suspicious.
The Chief Constable of Kent police is being reported as having said:
The Metropolitan Police have updated their guidance on stopping people taking photographs and have made their officers and PCSOs aware of it.
The guidance is available online at:
http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm
I think Cambridgeshire Police need to do something similar.
The British Journal of Photography is reporting that Grant Smith, a photographer and former chairman of the Association of Photographers, has was briefly detained by the Met Police for photographing a building earlier today:
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=871742
The police appear to have threatened to search him if he did not identify himself.
I think the police attitude is awful; we need put a stop to this kind of behaviour by the police as its seriously damaging the relationship between the public and police.
If this incident had happened in Cambridge, the photographer would not have been given a Stop and Account form and there may have been no official trace the events took place.
The City of London have threatened a journalist with arrest if he didn’t let them view photos he had taken:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/11/snapshot-special-branch-terror-suspect
An ITN film crew have also been stopped filming by the City of London police:
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/ITN_film_crew_stopped_while_covering_photographer_story_news_292827.html
We have to get a grip on our increasingly oppressive police.
Latest in this thread - Italian Student arrested for photographing London building:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/15/italian-student-police-arrest-filming
With respect to viewing films and searching phones It’s important that people who’re not criminals, or suspects, ought be able to keep things secret from the state.
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