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	<title>Comments on: City Council Propose Buying 11 and 12 Year Olds Local Secrets Discount Cards</title>
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	<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html</link>
	<description>Cambridge, United Kingdom.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-31045</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-31045</guid>
		<description>Cambridge University doesn't have its own swimming pool. Well -  not one which can be used for regular exercise or competitive swimming. 

There are a couple of tiny pools in colleges (many of which are unheated/outside) - access to which is not given to all students. 

I think we need less, not more, division between students and other residents of this city. I can't see any argument to treat University of Cambridge students differently from ARU students with respect to swimming discounts. 

I'd like to see elected representatives engage as enthusiastically with students' unions as they do with residents associations. At the moment I think students' have too little influence and engagement in local Government in Cambridge despite their key role in choosing who runs and represents the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cambridge University doesn&#8217;t have its own swimming pool. Well -  not one which can be used for regular exercise or competitive swimming. </p>
<p>There are a couple of tiny pools in colleges (many of which are unheated/outside) - access to which is not given to all students. </p>
<p>I think we need less, not more, division between students and other residents of this city. I can&#8217;t see any argument to treat University of Cambridge students differently from ARU students with respect to swimming discounts. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see elected representatives engage as enthusiastically with students&#8217; unions as they do with residents associations. At the moment I think students&#8217; have too little influence and engagement in local Government in Cambridge despite their key role in choosing who runs and represents the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-31042</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-31042</guid>
		<description>We've obviously got crossed wires David. I tend to agree with you that offering discounts for Cambridge University students to use council swimming pools and similar activities is not the best use of money. On the other hand, there might be a case for still extending it to ARU students, since their facilities are not as extensive.

Regarding local democracy, however, I do think students should be able to vote in Cambridge if they so choose. If they consider Cambridge to be their primary residence, they should be able to vote there. Many students I've canvassed choose not to vote locally precisely because they don't consider Cambridge their home.

On the other hand, I think there's a definite case to be made that at the next Boundary Commission review a new council ward should be drawn to take in as many students and as few normal residents of town as possible. Under the current boundaries and with the current voting intentions of students, permanent residents in Market and to a lesser extent in Newnham and Castle can be largely ignored by the Lib Dems, as the students will carry them over the finish line.

Creating a student ward probably wouldn't entail any great amount of political benefit for any one party - both the student and non-student areas of those wards tend to favour the Lib Dems -  but it would simplify questions of constituent service and help to regularise the position of students as an interest group in Cambridge's local government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve obviously got crossed wires David. I tend to agree with you that offering discounts for Cambridge University students to use council swimming pools and similar activities is not the best use of money. On the other hand, there might be a case for still extending it to ARU students, since their facilities are not as extensive.</p>
<p>Regarding local democracy, however, I do think students should be able to vote in Cambridge if they so choose. If they consider Cambridge to be their primary residence, they should be able to vote there. Many students I&#8217;ve canvassed choose not to vote locally precisely because they don&#8217;t consider Cambridge their home.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I think there&#8217;s a definite case to be made that at the next Boundary Commission review a new council ward should be drawn to take in as many students and as few normal residents of town as possible. Under the current boundaries and with the current voting intentions of students, permanent residents in Market and to a lesser extent in Newnham and Castle can be largely ignored by the Lib Dems, as the students will carry them over the finish line.</p>
<p>Creating a student ward probably wouldn&#8217;t entail any great amount of political benefit for any one party - both the student and non-student areas of those wards tend to favour the Lib Dems -  but it would simplify questions of constituent service and help to regularise the position of students as an interest group in Cambridge&#8217;s local government.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan, Cambridge</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-31009</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan, Cambridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-31009</guid>
		<description>David, I do see your point in reference to the University of Cambridge students - who have access to excellent facilities often at little or no cost. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that Cam Uni students would also make less use of the public facilities than Cambridge's other university's students at ARU who have significantly less access to world class pools and gyms. A general 'one rule for everyone' system would always fail in these circumstances. 

As for who can and can't vote, surely removing someones right to elect their local representatives is a step backwards for democracy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I do see your point in reference to the University of Cambridge students - who have access to excellent facilities often at little or no cost. I don&#8217;t know for sure, but I imagine that Cam Uni students would also make less use of the public facilities than Cambridge&#8217;s other university&#8217;s students at ARU who have significantly less access to world class pools and gyms. A general &#8216;one rule for everyone&#8217; system would always fail in these circumstances. </p>
<p>As for who can and can&#8217;t vote, surely removing someones right to elect their local representatives is a step backwards for democracy?</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-31000</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-31000</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Edward. I wasn't suggesting students pay Council Tax, simply that perhaps they should pay full price for use of swimming and other public facilities. The colleges and universities provide them with a lot of (largely exclusive) leisure facilities, without the Cambridge public subsiding them further, at a time when all public services are faced with severe cuts. There is, of course, a separate argument about whether students should be allowed to vote in local elections (obviously in general elections they would always have  the choice of voting here or in a "home" town).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Edward. I wasn&#8217;t suggesting students pay Council Tax, simply that perhaps they should pay full price for use of swimming and other public facilities. The colleges and universities provide them with a lot of (largely exclusive) leisure facilities, without the Cambridge public subsiding them further, at a time when all public services are faced with severe cuts. There is, of course, a separate argument about whether students should be allowed to vote in local elections (obviously in general elections they would always have  the choice of voting here or in a &#8220;home&#8221; town).</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30945</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30945</guid>
		<description>It's because students couldn't afford it otherwise.

When you're going to leave university with an average debt of 15 grand, three years council tax is likely to break the camel's back.

Especially since Cambridge University bans its undergraduates from working during term time and limits the allowable hours of postgrads.

Obviously there are some who can afford it. But the reason it doesn't make sense to charge students council tax is that they're generally poor during their university years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s because students couldn&#8217;t afford it otherwise.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re going to leave university with an average debt of 15 grand, three years council tax is likely to break the camel&#8217;s back.</p>
<p>Especially since Cambridge University bans its undergraduates from working during term time and limits the allowable hours of postgrads.</p>
<p>Obviously there are some who can afford it. But the reason it doesn&#8217;t make sense to charge students council tax is that they&#8217;re generally poor during their university years.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30759</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30759</guid>
		<description>Why do we have these discounts?  Presumably to enable those who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to, to use the city's pools. 

I can see that discounts for those such as students and the elderly are to some extent badly targeted - in that some of the those in the city with the largest disposable incomes come into those groups but if we are going to offer discounts they're easy groups to select and do cover some many of those who will benefit from discounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do we have these discounts?  Presumably to enable those who otherwise wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford to, to use the city&#8217;s pools. </p>
<p>I can see that discounts for those such as students and the elderly are to some extent badly targeted - in that some of the those in the city with the largest disposable incomes come into those groups but if we are going to offer discounts they&#8217;re easy groups to select and do cover some many of those who will benefit from discounts.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30753</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30753</guid>
		<description>As you say, students are exempt from Council Tax. I'm not sure I appreciate the reason students should receive the same discounts as others (for example the elderly or the poor). From my experience, students are already offered a large number of discounts that are not available to others. At a time when local authorities are being faced with increasing cuts to services, why should students continue to receive subsidies simply because they are students (unless, perhaps, those facilities provided exclusively for students are made available to other residents of the City)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you say, students are exempt from Council Tax. I&#8217;m not sure I appreciate the reason students should receive the same discounts as others (for example the elderly or the poor). From my experience, students are already offered a large number of discounts that are not available to others. At a time when local authorities are being faced with increasing cuts to services, why should students continue to receive subsidies simply because they are students (unless, perhaps, those facilities provided exclusively for students are made available to other residents of the City)?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30749</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30749</guid>
		<description>Students are exempt from council tax; but ought receive the same benefits as others who don't pay or receive discounts for example those on benefits

I agree a greater Cambridge unitary authority would help, though it is unlikely it would be drawn widely enough to really impact this kind of problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Students are exempt from council tax; but ought receive the same benefits as others who don&#8217;t pay or receive discounts for example those on benefits</p>
<p>I agree a greater Cambridge unitary authority would help, though it is unlikely it would be drawn widely enough to really impact this kind of problem.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30741</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30741</guid>
		<description>And how do the council taxpayers in Cambridge fund subsidies for students? Presumably one way of solving the problem of funding for the villagers is the reorganisation of local government, so that the City and its more immediate hinterland are covered by the same local authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how do the council taxpayers in Cambridge fund subsidies for students? Presumably one way of solving the problem of funding for the villagers is the reorganisation of local government, so that the City and its more immediate hinterland are covered by the same local authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30699</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30699</guid>
		<description>The problem with the central government scheme for free swimming for all under 16s is that neither the local Labour Party or the local Lib Dem MP (both of whom I'd expect to have the necessary influence) have been able to get the government to come up with a way of funding it which wouldn't result in council taxpayers in Cambridge subsidising children from the surrounding region. Cambridge residents can't afford that subsidy - not without putting council tax up even more - and that wouldn't be justifiable. 

Many government schemes don't properly account for their effect on "destination" authorities like Cambridge which cover areas which are the centres for their region. 

People come in to swim in the city from a wide area but the government's mechanism for funding for the free swimming for under 16s does not account for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the central government scheme for free swimming for all under 16s is that neither the local Labour Party or the local Lib Dem MP (both of whom I&#8217;d expect to have the necessary influence) have been able to get the government to come up with a way of funding it which wouldn&#8217;t result in council taxpayers in Cambridge subsidising children from the surrounding region. Cambridge residents can&#8217;t afford that subsidy - not without putting council tax up even more - and that wouldn&#8217;t be justifiable. </p>
<p>Many government schemes don&#8217;t properly account for their effect on &#8220;destination&#8221; authorities like Cambridge which cover areas which are the centres for their region. </p>
<p>People come in to swim in the city from a wide area but the government&#8217;s mechanism for funding for the free swimming for under 16s does not account for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Doreen Plumb</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30696</link>
		<dc:creator>Doreen Plumb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30696</guid>
		<description>Thanks for such an informed report.  How much officer time and councillor time at area committees has already been spent on this issue?

Surely a  card with ten 'free' tokens which could be punched in exchange for entry to the pool, a bus ride, etc can't be that difficult to devise.

I agree, deal directly with the provider.  Why not connect to the  Central Library card and encourage young children to register to use the library if they haven't already.

This would require some interaction between the City Council and the County Council (the library  services provider and schools!) ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for such an informed report.  How much officer time and councillor time at area committees has already been spent on this issue?</p>
<p>Surely a  card with ten &#8216;free&#8217; tokens which could be punched in exchange for entry to the pool, a bus ride, etc can&#8217;t be that difficult to devise.</p>
<p>I agree, deal directly with the provider.  Why not connect to the  Central Library card and encourage young children to register to use the library if they haven&#8217;t already.</p>
<p>This would require some interaction between the City Council and the County Council (the library  services provider and schools!) &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30582</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30582</guid>
		<description>I hate to get all party political here, but if we're going to encourage young people to use swimming pools, couldn't we just do what the local Labour Party has been pushing and extend free swimming to under 17s?

I'm all for giving discounts to the youth where affordable (especially if it's the sort of thing that's going to enthuse and occupy them for a significant period of time) but this does seem like a strange way to go about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to get all party political here, but if we&#8217;re going to encourage young people to use swimming pools, couldn&#8217;t we just do what the local Labour Party has been pushing and extend free swimming to under 17s?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for giving discounts to the youth where affordable (especially if it&#8217;s the sort of thing that&#8217;s going to enthuse and occupy them for a significant period of time) but this does seem like a strange way to go about it.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30510</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30510</guid>
		<description>I am not entirely clear why the City Council should be pressed to give discounts at facilities funded by Council Tax to an increasingly large number of students who don't pay Council Tax. Is there a reciprocal arrangement whereby residents of Cambridge have privileged access to the facilities of the universities and colleges in exchange?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not entirely clear why the City Council should be pressed to give discounts at facilities funded by Council Tax to an increasingly large number of students who don&#8217;t pay Council Tax. Is there a reciprocal arrangement whereby residents of Cambridge have privileged access to the facilities of the universities and colleges in exchange?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan, Cambridge</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30508</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan, Cambridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30508</guid>
		<description>I don't know about ARU, but students at the University of Cambridge aren't enrolled with the NUS by default - you have to 'opt in'. As the Cambridge University student card is remarkably similar to Cambridge University staff card it may be difficult for local amenities to differentiate between the two and provide appropriate discounts... However, funding a private venture to produce a 'negotiated' card allowing you discounts for public services seems completely backward and distinctly fishy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know about ARU, but students at the University of Cambridge aren&#8217;t enrolled with the NUS by default - you have to &#8216;opt in&#8217;. As the Cambridge University student card is remarkably similar to Cambridge University staff card it may be difficult for local amenities to differentiate between the two and provide appropriate discounts&#8230; However, funding a private venture to produce a &#8216;negotiated&#8217; card allowing you discounts for public services seems completely backward and distinctly fishy.</p>
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		<title>By: Fruagal Dougal</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30506</link>
		<dc:creator>Fruagal Dougal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30506</guid>
		<description>Children tend to gather at certain points and always will.  Did the Council specify what exactly the children were moved on &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Children tend to gather at certain points and always will.  Did the Council specify what exactly the children were moved on <em>for</em>?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/local-secrets-cards-children.html#comment-30479</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2864#comment-30479</guid>
		<description>While not mentioned at either meeting I've just noticed that Parkside Pools offers free swimming to those under 17 with a paid for Cambridge Card from Local Secrets on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays from 4-6pm

http://www.cambridge.gov.uk/ccm/content/leisure-and-entertainment/swimming-and-paddling-pools/parkside-pools.en</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While not mentioned at either meeting I&#8217;ve just noticed that Parkside Pools offers free swimming to those under 17 with a paid for Cambridge Card from Local Secrets on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays from 4-6pm</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cambridge.gov.uk/ccm/content/leisure-and-entertainment/swimming-and-paddling-pools/parkside-pools.en" rel="nofollow">http://www.cambridge.gov.uk/ccm/content/leisure-and-entertainment/swimming-and-paddling-pools/parkside-pools.en</a></p>
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