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	<title>Comments on: Keeping Marshall Flying at Cambridge - A Walk Around the Airport</title>
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	<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html</link>
	<description>Cambridge, United Kingdom.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: John Ionides</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22675</link>
		<dc:creator>John Ionides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22675</guid>
		<description>No, it wasn't being used in the context of Tony Juniper's comments. I have nothing against organic farming (in fact I am quite a fan), but if you are going to take the yield hit then you have to look even more carefully at both land use and overall population - or face the fact that forest in some other part of the world is going to be cleared for your pleasure.

And, in terms of the amenity, the "open space" element is quite considerable (well, I think so anyway and I don't think I am by any means alone).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it wasn&#8217;t being used in the context of Tony Juniper&#8217;s comments. I have nothing against organic farming (in fact I am quite a fan), but if you are going to take the yield hit then you have to look even more carefully at both land use and overall population - or face the fact that forest in some other part of the world is going to be cleared for your pleasure.</p>
<p>And, in terms of the amenity, the &#8220;open space&#8221; element is quite considerable (well, I think so anyway and I don&#8217;t think I am by any means alone).</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22600</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22600</guid>
		<description>I think "agri-desert" is a very particular term, referring to over-industrialised, chemically intense forms of farming, which are not unproductive but certainly do not offer many local jobs or much by way of amenity (apart from open space). It may have been used in the context of Tony Juniper's comments, where he was comparing organic farming, which can produce several jobs, with agribusinesses, which tend to have one chap in a combine harvester (who may just come in for the season).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;agri-desert&#8221; is a very particular term, referring to over-industrialised, chemically intense forms of farming, which are not unproductive but certainly do not offer many local jobs or much by way of amenity (apart from open space). It may have been used in the context of Tony Juniper&#8217;s comments, where he was comparing organic farming, which can produce several jobs, with agribusinesses, which tend to have one chap in a combine harvester (who may just come in for the season).</p>
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		<title>By: John Ionides</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22392</link>
		<dc:creator>John Ionides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22392</guid>
		<description>Richard,

One of the scariest things I heard at the growth hustings was Nimmo-Smith's description of Cambridge as an island "surrounded by agri-desert". This suggests to me that he considers the area around Cambridge (presumably including the green belt?) to be intrinsically unproductive and ripe for development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>One of the scariest things I heard at the growth hustings was Nimmo-Smith&#8217;s description of Cambridge as an island &#8220;surrounded by agri-desert&#8221;. This suggests to me that he considers the area around Cambridge (presumably including the green belt?) to be intrinsically unproductive and ripe for development.</p>
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		<title>By: John Ionides</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22391</link>
		<dc:creator>John Ionides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22391</guid>
		<description>David, your point about the north is valid but the difficulty is in implementing it (and I say this as someone who does not agree with cramming economic activity down in the SE). Housing is clearly an issue here. As long as you build housing to meet demand then you are just going to promote "fashion-driven" internal migration. My personal view is that overall it is better to keep new housing low in the SE and let market mechanisms rebalance internal migration , but then you have to accept that there will be people who would like to live in a place like Cambridge that can't afford to.

Of course, you can just try to pump cash directly into the north, but that approach has been tested to destruction (and not only by the current lot, although they have been particularly keen) and I see relatively little to show for it.

What is unreasonable, though, is to expect to have it both ways i.e. to advocate high housing targets to meet demand in the SE and then complain that the north atrophies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, your point about the north is valid but the difficulty is in implementing it (and I say this as someone who does not agree with cramming economic activity down in the SE). Housing is clearly an issue here. As long as you build housing to meet demand then you are just going to promote &#8220;fashion-driven&#8221; internal migration. My personal view is that overall it is better to keep new housing low in the SE and let market mechanisms rebalance internal migration , but then you have to accept that there will be people who would like to live in a place like Cambridge that can&#8217;t afford to.</p>
<p>Of course, you can just try to pump cash directly into the north, but that approach has been tested to destruction (and not only by the current lot, although they have been particularly keen) and I see relatively little to show for it.</p>
<p>What is unreasonable, though, is to expect to have it both ways i.e. to advocate high housing targets to meet demand in the SE and then complain that the north atrophies.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22319</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22319</guid>
		<description>The general problem with "mobility" both within the UK and across the world, is that the population generally only wants to move from poorer areas to richer areas (such as Cambridge). Perfectly serviceable housing in parts of the north of England is being demolished, much of it council housing. Surely it be better to encourage job creation in those areas. rather than transporting the population to work elsewhere (leaving behind a workless residue).  Making it "easier" for some social tenants to move to popular areas can generally only be done at the expense of delaying the housing of others who are already waiting for homes. On the more general point, I must disagree with you. I feel we need to move the proportion of owner-occupation to social renting back down to below 65%. That is bound to mean higher proportions of social housing in new developments, which will mean fighting developers. It should also mean a higher quality of property, since many of the "social" units are built to much higher specifications then the properties for sale. And the vast majority of social housing goes to those with existing connections with the area (hence the apparent tendency to discourage mobility). I am not sure the same is ever true of property built for sale. To that extent, the cohesion of the City is also better served by a higher proprtion of social housing. (Of course, as Cllr Dryden has pointed out, the cohesion of the City is also served by retaining its long-standing businesses and employers, such as Marshall).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The general problem with &#8220;mobility&#8221; both within the UK and across the world, is that the population generally only wants to move from poorer areas to richer areas (such as Cambridge). Perfectly serviceable housing in parts of the north of England is being demolished, much of it council housing. Surely it be better to encourage job creation in those areas. rather than transporting the population to work elsewhere (leaving behind a workless residue).  Making it &#8220;easier&#8221; for some social tenants to move to popular areas can generally only be done at the expense of delaying the housing of others who are already waiting for homes. On the more general point, I must disagree with you. I feel we need to move the proportion of owner-occupation to social renting back down to below 65%. That is bound to mean higher proportions of social housing in new developments, which will mean fighting developers. It should also mean a higher quality of property, since many of the &#8220;social&#8221; units are built to much higher specifications then the properties for sale. And the vast majority of social housing goes to those with existing connections with the area (hence the apparent tendency to discourage mobility). I am not sure the same is ever true of property built for sale. To that extent, the cohesion of the City is also better served by a higher proprtion of social housing. (Of course, as Cllr Dryden has pointed out, the cohesion of the City is also served by retaining its long-standing businesses and employers, such as Marshall).</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22263</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22263</guid>
		<description>I don't think the proportion of social / subsidised housing should be much greater in the new developments than it is on average in the rest of the city. ie. nearer 20% rather than the 50% which we have seen.

More could be done to improve the ability of those in social housing to move than is being done 
now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the proportion of social / subsidised housing should be much greater in the new developments than it is on average in the rest of the city. ie. nearer 20% rather than the 50% which we have seen.</p>
<p>More could be done to improve the ability of those in social housing to move than is being done<br />
now.</p>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22256</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22256</guid>
		<description>Richard,

As an afterthought, what proportion of the overall housing stock do you think should be made up of "social housing"? In my own view, I think it would be valuable to return at least to the sort of proportions that pre-date the "right to buy" policy of the early 1980s (which removed some 5000 well-built homes in Cambridge City from the public sector - rather more than are likely to be included on a Marshalls' site development). 

It seems a little too easy to suggest that social housing limits mobility of labour. Owner-occupation only encourages a one-way mobility of labour, from richer areas to poorer areas. How many owner-occupiers from the North of England can afford to sell up and buy in the South-East, for instance, except at the risk of the sort of crippling mortgage burdens that they are now trying to eliminate from the market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>As an afterthought, what proportion of the overall housing stock do you think should be made up of &#8220;social housing&#8221;? In my own view, I think it would be valuable to return at least to the sort of proportions that pre-date the &#8220;right to buy&#8221; policy of the early 1980s (which removed some 5000 well-built homes in Cambridge City from the public sector - rather more than are likely to be included on a Marshalls&#8217; site development). </p>
<p>It seems a little too easy to suggest that social housing limits mobility of labour. Owner-occupation only encourages a one-way mobility of labour, from richer areas to poorer areas. How many owner-occupiers from the North of England can afford to sell up and buy in the South-East, for instance, except at the risk of the sort of crippling mortgage burdens that they are now trying to eliminate from the market?</p>
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		<title>By: Neill Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22154</link>
		<dc:creator>Neill Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22154</guid>
		<description>Whilst it may well be that the City Council (whether under present LibDem or other control) would be happy for the airport to be turned over to housing *and in any event Central Government has set targets for each District Council to achieve in providing for new homes), Marshalls themselves for financial reasons are even keener and have been promoting development hard subject only to finding an alternative place from which to operate. In fact when the airfield was created (or expanded) in the 1930s it was on terms that if it ceased to be so used it would be used for housing land - at the the insistence of the Councillors then running Cambridge Council.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whilst it may well be that the City Council (whether under present LibDem or other control) would be happy for the airport to be turned over to housing *and in any event Central Government has set targets for each District Council to achieve in providing for new homes), Marshalls themselves for financial reasons are even keener and have been promoting development hard subject only to finding an alternative place from which to operate. In fact when the airfield was created (or expanded) in the 1930s it was on terms that if it ceased to be so used it would be used for housing land - at the the insistence of the Councillors then running Cambridge Council.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22112</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22112</guid>
		<description>I've been sent a photo of me on the walk:

&lt;img src="/images/richard_taylor_marshall_walk.jpg" alt="Richard Taylor on the Marshall Walk November 2009" /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been sent a photo of me on the walk:</p>
<p><img src="/images/richard_taylor_marshall_walk.jpg" alt="Richard Taylor on the Marshall Walk November 2009" /></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22111</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22111</guid>
		<description>Martin, I think we're agreeing. I agree the problems with Arbury Park ought be addressed in future developments. A focus on transport and quality of life are critical. 

It is possible to build houses within and around the edge of the city which will be attractive and practical places to live, and which people would be prepared to spend their own money buying. That's not what we're currently seeing though. With respect to the airport site the process is in too early a stage to see what quality of homes, transport infrastructure, employment opportunities and community facilities will be included in the plans, but I don't want to see a repeat of Arbury Park and I've not seen any evidence the Liberal Democrats do have the will to put policies in place to ensure the developments they're supporting around the city are high quality practical places to live. 

In one of the sections of &lt;a href="http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/parliamentary-hustings-growth.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;my article on the Parliamentary Hustings focusing on Growth&lt;/a&gt; where I expressed my own views I wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Building new houses can, in my view, affect market prices but only if it is good quality, both in terms of the build and location. Poor quality housing won’t affect house prices outside new developemts; high quality well located new homes will. I think there needs to be care taken with the provision of social housing and shared ownership that they are not pursued at the expense making properties on the open market more affordable. I do not think that it is good for society to have too great a proportion of social housing. In addition to their affect on market prices they reduce people’s mobility to the determent of the national economy.
The current cost of a home as multiple of salary is a figure which needs to be brought down; housing supply is only one small variable affecting this, the easy availability of credit, and the willingness of people to take on debt is another very significant factor which also has to be tackled.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I support placing new homes in the city. I think it would be better though if the highest density housing was in the city centre and don't think the strategy of building blocks of flats on the outskirts is the way to go. Overall at Arbury park end result is a density less than we see in some of the very popular and desirable high density Victorian terraces of the city centre. 

Cllr Harrison has written &lt;a href="http://nicholaharrison.mycouncillor.org.uk/2009/11/13/my-views-on-the-future-of-cambridge-airport/" rel="nofollow"&gt;a blog post expanding on the reasons she supports building homes on the airport&lt;/a&gt;. Her, and other Cambridge Liberal Democrats', focus on social housing provision (she suggests a driver for the development is the "8,000 Cambridge people now on the waiting list for affordable housing here in the city") is in my view a big part of the problem. I don't think the state (or worse, public-private partnerships) ought be housing such a large proportion of the population, I don't think that tackles the underlying problems at all and will take the country in the wrong direction. 

Cllr Harrison has ignored the fact that Marshall is looking UK wide for sites to relocate to.  I think she has also either mis-understood or mis-represented Marshall's intention with respect to the site, a site in which they are still making substantial investments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, I think we&#8217;re agreeing. I agree the problems with Arbury Park ought be addressed in future developments. A focus on transport and quality of life are critical. </p>
<p>It is possible to build houses within and around the edge of the city which will be attractive and practical places to live, and which people would be prepared to spend their own money buying. That&#8217;s not what we&#8217;re currently seeing though. With respect to the airport site the process is in too early a stage to see what quality of homes, transport infrastructure, employment opportunities and community facilities will be included in the plans, but I don&#8217;t want to see a repeat of Arbury Park and I&#8217;ve not seen any evidence the Liberal Democrats do have the will to put policies in place to ensure the developments they&#8217;re supporting around the city are high quality practical places to live. </p>
<p>In one of the sections of <a href="http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/parliamentary-hustings-growth.html" rel="nofollow">my article on the Parliamentary Hustings focusing on Growth</a> where I expressed my own views I wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Building new houses can, in my view, affect market prices but only if it is good quality, both in terms of the build and location. Poor quality housing won’t affect house prices outside new developemts; high quality well located new homes will. I think there needs to be care taken with the provision of social housing and shared ownership that they are not pursued at the expense making properties on the open market more affordable. I do not think that it is good for society to have too great a proportion of social housing. In addition to their affect on market prices they reduce people’s mobility to the determent of the national economy.<br />
The current cost of a home as multiple of salary is a figure which needs to be brought down; housing supply is only one small variable affecting this, the easy availability of credit, and the willingness of people to take on debt is another very significant factor which also has to be tackled.</p></blockquote>
<p>I support placing new homes in the city. I think it would be better though if the highest density housing was in the city centre and don&#8217;t think the strategy of building blocks of flats on the outskirts is the way to go. Overall at Arbury park end result is a density less than we see in some of the very popular and desirable high density Victorian terraces of the city centre. </p>
<p>Cllr Harrison has written <a href="http://nicholaharrison.mycouncillor.org.uk/2009/11/13/my-views-on-the-future-of-cambridge-airport/" rel="nofollow">a blog post expanding on the reasons she supports building homes on the airport</a>. Her, and other Cambridge Liberal Democrats&#8217;, focus on social housing provision (she suggests a driver for the development is the &#8220;8,000 Cambridge people now on the waiting list for affordable housing here in the city&#8221;) is in my view a big part of the problem. I don&#8217;t think the state (or worse, public-private partnerships) ought be housing such a large proportion of the population, I don&#8217;t think that tackles the underlying problems at all and will take the country in the wrong direction. </p>
<p>Cllr Harrison has ignored the fact that Marshall is looking UK wide for sites to relocate to.  I think she has also either mis-understood or mis-represented Marshall&#8217;s intention with respect to the site, a site in which they are still making substantial investments.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22101</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22101</guid>
		<description>"Property at Arbury Park is currently sitting unsold but the few properties
in the rest of the city which do come on the market sell rapidly, this
shows the new homes at Arbury Park have not effectivly increased the supply
of property in the city; two different parallel markets are in operation."

Not necessarily; a significant factor with regards to Arbury/Orchard Park
is the quality of what has been built, not least the obviously unfinished
nature of the development, and other aspects, like the hugely unattractive
way in which King's Hedges cuts it off. Had the development been
implemented better, it could be a lot more attractive, and there is surely
every possibility that a Cambridge East development, if it were to go
ahead, could have high construction and community standards, as could many
other developments, if the policies and will are in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Property at Arbury Park is currently sitting unsold but the few properties<br />
in the rest of the city which do come on the market sell rapidly, this<br />
shows the new homes at Arbury Park have not effectivly increased the supply<br />
of property in the city; two different parallel markets are in operation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not necessarily; a significant factor with regards to Arbury/Orchard Park<br />
is the quality of what has been built, not least the obviously unfinished<br />
nature of the development, and other aspects, like the hugely unattractive<br />
way in which King&#8217;s Hedges cuts it off. Had the development been<br />
implemented better, it could be a lot more attractive, and there is surely<br />
every possibility that a Cambridge East development, if it were to go<br />
ahead, could have high construction and community standards, as could many<br />
other developments, if the policies and will are in place.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22097</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22097</guid>
		<description>The &lt;a href="http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_cambridge/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=463857" rel="nofollow"&gt;Cambridge News has an article on the event&lt;/a&gt;. Liberal Democrat Councillor Nichola Harrison is quoted as being in support of the plans to build houses on the site. She argues, bizarrely in my view, that those who will benefit are people already living on the East side of the city. She is quoted as saying:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Cambridge's eastern area is currently of poor quality with a lack of facilities and services. This development, which has been in the pipeline for years, would bring huge advantages to the area, as well as catering for the city's desperate need for more housing.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_cambridge/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=463857" rel="nofollow">Cambridge News has an article on the event</a>. Liberal Democrat Councillor Nichola Harrison is quoted as being in support of the plans to build houses on the site. She argues, bizarrely in my view, that those who will benefit are people already living on the East side of the city. She is quoted as saying:</p>
<blockquote><p>Cambridge&#8217;s eastern area is currently of poor quality with a lack of facilities and services. This development, which has been in the pipeline for years, would bring huge advantages to the area, as well as catering for the city&#8217;s desperate need for more housing.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: David Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22092</link>
		<dc:creator>David Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22092</guid>
		<description>The Queen is HM. The other royals, by and large, are HRH, so there might well be the odd HRH accompanying HM (for instance, I assume, heath permitting, HRH the Duke of Edinburgh Philip will be along, given his ceremonial position within the University).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Queen is HM. The other royals, by and large, are HRH, so there might well be the odd HRH accompanying HM (for instance, I assume, heath permitting, HRH the Duke of Edinburgh Philip will be along, given his ceremonial position within the University).</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22063</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22063</guid>
		<description>Corrected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrected.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/keep-marshall-flying.html#comment-22062</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=2266#comment-22062</guid>
		<description>Small typo, HRH's visit is November, not October.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small typo, HRH&#8217;s visit is November, not October.</p>
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