Comments on: Julian Huppert on Homeopathy http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html Cambridge, United Kingdom. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:44:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Wendy / Nature lover http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-67269 Wendy / Nature lover Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:55:46 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-67269 Maybe it is the financial issue, and the fact that some 'health service public funds' are being directed for homoeopathic treatment, that is primarily being opposed? If so I can appreciate that to a degree - maybe it is not what the NHS is about?? But I do find the strenuous denouncing here of homoeopathy as 'mumbo jumbo', and something only believed in by 'crackpots', rather disturbing. I'm glad that I am more open-minded than that. Maybe it is the financial issue, and the fact that some ‘health service public funds’ are being directed for homoeopathic treatment, that is primarily being opposed? If so I can appreciate that to a degree - maybe it is not what the NHS is about?? But I do find the strenuous denouncing here of homoeopathy as ‘mumbo jumbo’, and something only believed in by ‘crackpots’, rather disturbing. I’m glad that I am more open-minded than that.

]]> By: Wendy / Nature lover http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-67264 Wendy / Nature lover Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:18:20 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-67264 'Allopathic' medicines save many lives, but there is another side to the coin, in that they are often overprescribed for lesser ailments - then they can and do cause all sorts of damage and further health problems in people who are oversensitive to harsh chemicals. They are often given to suppress symptoms (eg. paracetamol to reduce a temperature, yet the high temperature is the body's natural way of throwing off an infection...). That to me seems more 'nutty' than homoeopathy.... People should be allowed to make their own choices. I saw a Horizon programme maybe 20 years ago which had a sort of 'Particle Physics' explanation for homoeopathy (quite scientific!) involving the fact that the remedies, in their very small dosages (which do not usually cause side-effects), leave IMPRINTS ON WATER MOLECULES in the body.... We are composed of, is it 60% water - something very subtle, but as yet not fully explained, would seem to be happening at a molecular level, to provoke a healing response (perhaps something parallel to vaccination, when a tiny amount of an infective agent induces a major and beneficial response in the body)? I believe the late Queen Mother was a big fan of homoeopathy (and had a long and healthy life), as is Prince Charles. It could be seen perhaps as a way of dealing certainly with more minor ailments, before they lead to major health problems. And yes, it is widely used in other countries, and they are most certainly not laughing stocks as a result. Just because something can not yet be fully explained in a clinical, scientific way, does not mean it is 'mumbo jumbo'..... it has been around for a long time and has helped significant numbers of people (and animals, dare I add?! - allegedly, anyway...). I wait to be shot down.... ‘Allopathic’ medicines save many lives, but there is another side to the coin, in that they are often overprescribed for lesser ailments - then they can and do cause all sorts of damage and further health problems in people who are oversensitive to harsh chemicals. They are often given to suppress symptoms (eg. paracetamol to reduce a temperature, yet the high temperature is the body’s natural way of throwing off an infection…). That to me seems more ‘nutty’ than homoeopathy…. People should be allowed to make their own choices.

I saw a Horizon programme maybe 20 years ago which had a sort of ‘Particle Physics’ explanation for homoeopathy (quite scientific!) involving the fact that the remedies, in their very small dosages (which do not usually cause side-effects), leave IMPRINTS ON WATER MOLECULES in the body…. We are composed of, is it 60% water - something very subtle, but as yet not fully explained, would seem to be happening at a molecular level, to provoke a healing response (perhaps something parallel to vaccination, when a tiny amount of an infective agent induces a major and beneficial response in the body)?

I believe the late Queen Mother was a big fan of homoeopathy (and had a long and healthy life), as is Prince Charles. It could be seen perhaps as a way of dealing certainly with more minor ailments, before they lead to major health problems. And yes, it is widely used in other countries, and they are most certainly not laughing stocks as a result. Just because something can not yet be fully explained in a clinical, scientific way, does not mean it is ‘mumbo jumbo’….. it has been around for a long time and has helped significant numbers of people (and animals, dare I add?! - allegedly, anyway…). I wait to be shot down….

]]> By: Linden Ford http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-66461 Linden Ford Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:58:22 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-66461 It is possible that different people respond to different types of medicine? Personally, having tried homeopathy at various times, I was not helped by it at all. But I have known people who have been helped, including somebody who was able to cancel planned surgery after a homeopathic treatment to remove a cyst. Homeopathic medicine is widespread in France, and I believe Germany – hardly countries which are laughing stocks? If it did work even for a portion of the population, wouldn’t it be helping the health budget?, as it seems so much cheaper than conventional medicines? Obviously, conventional/allopathic medicine is life-saving and life-enhancing for the majority of people. However, I have also known people who end up taking one allopathic medicine to treat the effects of another one. Or who develop another medical condition as a side effect. I knew someone who died from side effects. Isn’t it therefore a good thing to at least look into an alternative, gentler system of medicine for those it may be more suited to? Maybe not everything is amenable to scientific study? It would be interesting to hear from some Cambridge homeopaths! I think I would choose freedom of choice, and a spirit of investigation, unless/until all evidence for homeopathy became overwhelmingly negative. It is possible that different people respond to different types of medicine? Personally, having tried homeopathy at various times, I was not helped by it at all. But I have known people who have been helped, including somebody who was able to cancel planned surgery after a homeopathic treatment to remove a cyst.
Homeopathic medicine is widespread in France, and I believe Germany – hardly countries which are laughing stocks?
If it did work even for a portion of the population, wouldn’t it be helping the health budget?, as it seems so much cheaper than conventional medicines?
Obviously, conventional/allopathic medicine is life-saving and life-enhancing for the majority of people. However, I have also known people who end up taking one allopathic medicine to treat the effects of another one. Or who develop another medical condition as a side effect. I knew someone who died from side effects. Isn’t it therefore a good thing to at least look into an alternative, gentler system of medicine for those it may be more suited to?
Maybe not everything is amenable to scientific study?
It would be interesting to hear from some Cambridge homeopaths!
I think I would choose freedom of choice, and a spirit of investigation, unless/until all evidence for homeopathy became overwhelmingly negative.

]]> By: Ian Manning http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-45646 Ian Manning Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:21:02 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-45646 I (and I hope I'm not alone) cheered when I sae Julian had asked this question. I (and I hope I’m not alone) cheered when I sae Julian had asked this question.

]]> By: Richard Taylor http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-45460 Richard Taylor Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:05:45 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-45460 Steve Brine MP has responded to the above email, a version of which I also sent to him. <blockquote>Dear Mr Taylor, Many thanks for your email, the title of which did make me smile! Firstly I do think people read much more into EDMs than they actually signify. Many call them Parliamentary graffiti and they do have a point! Personally, I was asked to sign them and I am interested in what they say to open up a debate; nothing more than that. There is a meeting in Parliament next month I believe and I think it's worth me listening to what they have to say. I intend to do that. I assure you that, as someone who has more than enough experience of serious illness in my personal life, I am not one to give false hope to anyone and I have made it clear that would be the cruellest of things. All these EDMs are actually looking at is the option for GPs to have some form of homeopathy in their armoury but their decisions must always be clinically led and do what is best clinically for their patients. I know that more than anyone. Regards, Steve Brine Steve Brine MP for Winchester & Chandler's Ford</blockquote> Steve Brine MP has responded to the above email, a version of which I also sent to him.

Dear Mr Taylor,

Many thanks for your email, the title of which did make me smile!

Firstly I do think people read much more into EDMs than they actually signify. Many call them Parliamentary graffiti and they do have a point!

Personally, I was asked to sign them and I am interested in what they say to open up a debate; nothing more than that. There is a meeting in Parliament next month I believe and I think it’s worth me listening to what they have to say. I intend to do that.

I assure you that, as someone who has more than enough experience of serious illness in my personal life, I am not one to give false hope to anyone and I have made it clear that would be the cruellest of things. All these EDMs are actually looking at is the option for GPs to have some form of homeopathy in their armoury but their decisions must always be clinically led and do what is best clinically for their patients. I know that more than anyone.

Regards,

Steve Brine

Steve Brine
MP for Winchester & Chandler’s Ford

]]> By: Adam B http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44974 Adam B Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:23:45 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44974 I note that Anne Milton's answer was on homoeopathic treatments as a fraction of the drug bill - surely the relevant figure includes the amount spent on the consultations and investigations that produce the meaningless diagnoses that homoeopaths use to select the appropriate placebo. Anne Garvey: David Tredinnick is indeed a fan of astrology as well as of homoeopathy. I note that Anne Milton’s answer was on homoeopathic treatments as a fraction of the drug bill - surely the relevant figure includes the amount spent on the consultations and investigations that produce the meaningless diagnoses that homoeopaths use to select the appropriate placebo.

Anne Garvey: David Tredinnick is indeed a fan of astrology as well as of homoeopathy.

]]> By: Anne Garvey http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44945 Anne Garvey Thu, 01 Jul 2010 12:32:21 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44945 Thank goodness Julian Huppert is prepared to stand up to this wasteful nonsense spending, and well done Richard Taylor and scientific colleagues who keep up the pressure to keep this kind of mumbo jumbo out of the hard pressed health world. What is really worrying though is that a believer in this money sapping codswallop is on a Government Health Committee. As Simon Hoggart said in the Guardian, 'What next? An astrologer on the Financial Affairs Committee?' Thank goodness Julian Huppert is prepared to stand up to this wasteful nonsense spending, and well done Richard Taylor and scientific colleagues who keep up the pressure to keep this kind of mumbo jumbo out of the hard pressed health world. What is really worrying though is that a believer in this money sapping codswallop is on a Government Health Committee. As Simon Hoggart said in the Guardian, ‘What next? An astrologer on the Financial Affairs Committee?’

]]> By: Richard Taylor http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44830 Richard Taylor Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:55:28 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44830 Labour MP Paul Flynn has become the first MP to support Julian Huppert's amendments: http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMByMember.aspx?MID=3266 Labour MP Paul Flynn has become the first MP to support Julian Huppert’s amendments:

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMByMember.aspx?MID=3266

]]> By: Richard Taylor http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44824 Richard Taylor Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:08:29 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44824 I have written and sent the below: <blockquote>From: Richard Taylor Date: 30 June 2010 15:05:51 GMT+01:00 To: halfon4harlow@roberthalfon.com Subject: Your Belief in Magic Potions Dear Mr Halfon, By signing EDM 285 you have said you believe that the research reported in a paper entitled: "Cytotoxic effects of ultra-diluted remedies on breast cancer cells" [International Journal of Oncology, 2010 Feb; 36(2): 395-403] demonstrates the biological activity of "ultra-diluted" "homeopathic" remedies. If you have not already done so I suggest you read the full article which has been made available at: http://scepticsbook.com/wp-content/uploads/Cytotoxic-effects-of-homeopathic-remedies-on-breast-cancer-cells-2010.pdf The paper states that analysis of the solvent control shows it has a different composition to the "remedies"; whereas the idea surely is that the effects of substantially chemically identical remedies are to be being compared. If there was a chemical difference between the control and the "remedies" then presumably that might easily explain any differences in the toxicity of the substances on the cells, without the need to invoke magic. There is also no statistical basis given for drawing the conclusions reached. I would suggest that drawing the conclusion you have on the basis of any individual paper, and particularly this one, was a mis-judgement; and would like to suggest you instead seek to inform yourself about the efficacy of homeopathy by reading about the position taken by those who have reviewed much wider scientific evidence, for example the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-archive/science-technology/s-t-homeopathy-inquiry/ and those who have conducted systematic reviews of clinical trials, for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10853874 Spending many millions of pounds of taxpayers money on remedies which cannot and do not work while pretending they are effective drugs is scandalous. It makes a laughing stock of the UK and supporting spending public money on magic potions risks encouraging people to believe they might be effective at treating diseases and might be damaging to people's health if they avoid, or delay seeking effective mainstream treatment for their symptoms. Do you still support this EDM, and the others on homeopathy, which you signed a couple of weeks ago? I suggest a major underlying problem here is the poor quality of education, particularly science education, in schools in the UK. Regards, -- Richard Taylor Cambridge http://www.rtaylor.co.uk </blockquote> I have written and sent the below:

From: Richard Taylor
Date: 30 June 2010 15:05:51 GMT+01:00
To: halfon4harlow@roberthalfon.com
Subject: Your Belief in Magic Potions

Dear Mr Halfon,

By signing EDM 285 you have said you believe that the research reported in a paper entitled: “Cytotoxic effects of ultra-diluted remedies on breast cancer cells” [International Journal of Oncology, 2010 Feb; 36(2): 395-403] demonstrates the biological activity of “ultra-diluted” “homeopathic” remedies.

If you have not already done so I suggest you read the full article which has been made available at:

http://scepticsbook.com/wp-content/uploads/Cytotoxic-effects-of-homeopathic-remedies-on-breast-cancer-cells-2010.pdf

The paper states that analysis of the solvent control shows it has a different composition to the “remedies”; whereas the idea surely is that the effects of substantially chemically identical remedies are to be being compared. If there was a chemical difference between the control and the “remedies” then presumably that might easily explain any differences in the toxicity of the substances on the cells, without the need to invoke magic.

There is also no statistical basis given for drawing the conclusions reached.

I would suggest that drawing the conclusion you have on the basis of any individual paper, and particularly this one, was a mis-judgement; and would like to suggest you instead seek to inform yourself about the efficacy of homeopathy by reading about the position taken by those who have reviewed much wider scientific evidence, for example the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee:

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-archive/science-technology/s-t-homeopathy-inquiry/

and those who have conducted systematic reviews of clinical trials, for example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10853874

Spending many millions of pounds of taxpayers money on remedies which cannot and do not work while pretending they are effective drugs is scandalous. It makes a laughing stock of the UK and supporting spending public money on magic potions risks encouraging people to believe they might be effective at treating diseases and might be damaging to people’s health if they avoid, or delay seeking effective mainstream treatment for their symptoms.

Do you still support this EDM, and the others on homeopathy, which you signed a couple of weeks ago?

I suggest a major underlying problem here is the poor quality of education, particularly science education, in schools in the UK.

Regards,

–

Richard Taylor
Cambridge
http://www.rtaylor.co.uk

]]> By: David Griffin http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44799 David Griffin Wed, 30 Jun 2010 09:50:31 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44799 That ANY public money is being spent on homeopathy is a scandal. That a science or health select committee should include someone with so little understanding of scientific evidence is profoundly disturbing. If this government want to cut unnecessary spending and collect "a government of all the talents" may I recommend they appoint Ben Goldacre to the select committee on health immediately ? That ANY public money is being spent on homeopathy is a scandal. That a science or health select committee should include someone with so little understanding of scientific evidence is profoundly disturbing.
If this government want to cut unnecessary spending and collect “a government of all the talents” may I recommend they appoint Ben Goldacre to the select committee on health immediately ?

]]> By: Richard Taylor http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44755 Richard Taylor Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:59:57 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44755 The sixteen MPs who have signed up to David Tredinnick's EDM welcoming the paper titled : "Cytotoxic effects of ultra-diluted remedies on breast cancer cells" and saying that they believe the results "demonstrate biological activity of these natural products when presented at ultra-diluted doses": David Tredinnick, Conservative MP for Bosworth Robert Halfon, Consrvative MP for Harlow. halfon4harlow@roberthalfon.com Steve Brine, Conservative MP for Winchester. steve.brine.mp@parliament.uk http://twitter.com/sbrine Dr William McCrea, Democratic Unionist Party MP for Mid-Ulster. Bob Stewart, Conservative MP for Beckenham. Joan Walley, Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North. walleyj@parliament.uk Gregory Campbell, Democratic Unionist Party for East Londonderry James Gray, Conservative MP for North Wiltshire. Gordon Birtwistle, Liberal Democrat MP for Burnley. Luciana Berger, Labour MP for Liverpool Wavertree. Richard Harrington, Conservative MP for Watford. richard.harrington.mp@parliament.uk Jessica Lee, Conservative MP for Erewash. Julie Elliott, Labour MP for Sunderland Central. Yvonne Fovargue, Labour MP for Makerfield. Alan Meale, Labour MP for Mansfield. Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East On Twitter Mr Brine has said: "I am looking at all the evidence. People wildly overestimate what EDMs are! If you want to lobby me on the subject, pls write." The sixteen MPs who have signed up to David Tredinnick’s EDM welcoming the paper titled : “Cytotoxic effects of ultra-diluted remedies on breast cancer cells” and saying that they believe the results “demonstrate biological activity of these natural products when presented at ultra-diluted doses”:

David Tredinnick, Conservative MP for Bosworth
Robert Halfon, Consrvative MP for Harlow. halfon4harlow@roberthalfon.com
Steve Brine, Conservative MP for Winchester. steve.brine.mp@parliament.uk http://twitter.com/sbrine
Dr William McCrea, Democratic Unionist Party MP for Mid-Ulster.
Bob Stewart, Conservative MP for Beckenham.
Joan Walley, Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North. walleyj@parliament.uk
Gregory Campbell, Democratic Unionist Party for East Londonderry
James Gray, Conservative MP for North Wiltshire.
Gordon Birtwistle, Liberal Democrat MP for Burnley.
Luciana Berger, Labour MP for Liverpool Wavertree.
Richard Harrington, Conservative MP for Watford. richard.harrington.mp@parliament.uk
Jessica Lee, Conservative MP for Erewash.
Julie Elliott, Labour MP for Sunderland Central.
Yvonne Fovargue, Labour MP for Makerfield.
Alan Meale, Labour MP for Mansfield.
Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East

On Twitter Mr Brine has said: “I am looking at all the evidence. People wildly overestimate what EDMs are! If you want to lobby me on the subject, pls write.”

]]> By: Richard Taylor http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/huppert-on-homeopathy.html#comment-44749 Richard Taylor Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:24:22 +0000 http://www.rtaylor.co.uk/?p=3255#comment-44749 David Tredinnick also asked a question: <blockquote>Would my right hon. Friend accept that there is widespread anecdotal evidence of the effectiveness of homeopathic medicines? There are 500 doctors in this country who use them, and nobody is obliged to have them if they do not want them. Will he therefore heavily discount the illiberal views of our hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert)?</blockquote> The junior minister Anne Milton responded, but without in any way even coming close to addressing the point made: <blockquote>May I thank my hon. Friend for his question and pay tribute to him for his continued and persistent lobbying on the subject? I gather that he has been elected a member of the Select Committee on Health, so I welcome him to that position and I am sure that we will meet again at some point. </blockquote> Mr Tredinnick has rather scuppered his own argument by citing only "widespread anecdotal evidence" in support of it. He is wrong to characterise what Mr Huppert has said as illiberal as Mr Huppert is not seeking to ban anything, just ensure that public funds for the health service are not wasted on remedies which do not and cannot work. David Tredinnick also asked a question:

Would my right hon. Friend accept that there is widespread anecdotal evidence of the effectiveness of homeopathic medicines? There are 500 doctors in this country who use them, and nobody is obliged to have them if they do not want them. Will he therefore heavily discount the illiberal views of our hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert)?

The junior minister Anne Milton responded, but without in any way even coming close to addressing the point made:

May I thank my hon. Friend for his question and pay tribute to him for his continued and persistent lobbying on the subject? I gather that he has been elected a member of the Select Committee on Health, so I welcome him to that position and I am sure that we will meet again at some point.

Mr Tredinnick has rather scuppered his own argument by citing only “widespread anecdotal evidence” in support of it. He is wrong to characterise what Mr Huppert has said as illiberal as Mr Huppert is not seeking to ban anything, just ensure that public funds for the health service are not wasted on remedies which do not and cannot work.

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